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heredia_start [2020/07/24 09:16] – [Plays of the Sword and Dagger] adminaccountheredia_start [Unknown date] (current) – external edit (Unknown date) 127.0.0.1
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 +====== Pedro de Heredia ======
 +
 +FIXME  Big block of text describing the man, the book and the translation. Links to Rob's page on Fallen Rook Press.
 +
 +  * [[https://www.fallenrookpublishing.co.uk/books/book-of-lessons/|The Book of Lessons, by Pedro de Heredia (tr. Rob Runacres)]]
 +
 +-----
 +
 +There's three large-scale sections to this very thick book covering:
 +
 +  * Simple Lessons of the Single Sword
 +  * Plays of the Single Sword in Mathematical Form
 +  * Plays of the Sword and Dagger
 +
 +The term "mathematical form" has sparked much interested. Rob Runacres and other believes it refers to the geometrically precise Spanish rapier system of //La Verdada Destrza// (LVD). Personally, I don't see this in the description of actions and prefer to equate this term, like Jacopo Monesi (//Opposizioni at Avverimenti Sopra La Scherma// pp.10-11 quoted in the translators' introduction to Palladini's **Art of Fencing**), with a distinction between sword fighting in earnest and fencing in the //salle// or training hall. In short, I see nothing in this section which flags itself as //obviously// a Destreza-countering strategy or tactic or, conversely, anything which precludes its use against Destreza.
 +
 +-----
 +
 +===== Tempo =====
 +
 +The definition of tempo in Heredia's text is included in the section at the start of the book copied directly from Cavalcabo. However, the definition of tempo, falling around the middle of the plagiarised section, differs from the older text. Does this represent a refinement of or a change to the core concept?
 +
 +As with Cavalcabo, there are three //tempi//:
 +
 +  * the tempo of the sword,
 +  * the tempo of the foot, and
 +  * the tempo of the body.
 +
 +Later in the exercises, Heredia changes the list. This time, he lists three different //tempi//:
 +
 +  * the tempo of the hand,
 +  * the tempo of the foot, and 
 +  * counter-tempo (which appears to have a sub-category of "tempo of the head" which is basically just striking to the face).
 +
 +We can take the tempo of the hand/sword/dagger and tempo of the foot as the classic rapier fencing notion of "when your opponent is moving their hand/sword/dagger or foot, they cannot be attacking you" thus providing you with a safe moment in which to make your attack while the opponent's attention is elsewhere. This matches the first part of Agrippa's confusion about time.
 +
 +Counter-tempo is the new addition to the list. While present in Agrippa's text as the second part of his confusion about time in fencing, it likely represents the inclusion into the "Cavalcabo style" of contemporary fencing updated since Cavalcabo senior first wrote his text approximately 40-50 years before Heredia put pen to paper.
 +
 +Heredia makes two tactical statements when dealing with tempo and counter-time action in particular:
 +
 +  * "But note that in all //contretempi// it must be that the hand and the body are extended before the foot steps and it is necessary to perform these blows fully so that your strong, in parrying, passes over the weak of the enemy."
 +  * "Caution yourself not to take the countertempo unless the enemy is first on the way with arm extended."
 +
 +==== Striking on the Tempo of the Foot/Hand/Countertempo ====
 +
 +^Invitation or Engagement ^No. of Actions ^Opponent's Action or Parry ^Counter Action ^Source(s) ^Concordance |
 +|I subject opponent, //appel// and withdraw | FIXME | Opponent follows me | I thrust at the same time opp moves to follow me|HT-01 | |
 +|Invitation   |  |Opponent moves into measure | I thrust (in //quarte//?) at the same time the opponent moves |HT-02 | |
 +|Invitation   |  |Opponent moves into measure | I thrust (in //quarte//?) at the same time the opponent lifts the foot|HT-03 | Cf. HT-02 |
 +|At engagement | | Opponent narrows stance from wide to narrow | I thrust with resolution at the same time the opponent lifts the foot | HT-04 | |
 +|At engagement | | Opponent "wants to extend his body" | I thrust in the same tempo | HT-05 | |
 +|At wide measure | | Opponent wants to "turn in presence" (circle?) | I thrust in the same tempo the opponent lifts the leading foot | HT-06 | |
 +|I subject the opponent's blade | | Opponent disengages | I thrust in the same tempo as the opponent disengages | HT-11 | | 
 +|I subject the opponent's blade | | Opponent "abandons your blade" (releases pressure, lets the point drop) | I thrust in the same tempo as the opponent acts | HT-12 | |
 +|At engagement in a high line | | "Your enemy comes to make some feint to the inside or outside with a beat of the foot and hand" | I thrust on the //pied ferme// at the same time| HT-13 | |
 +|At engagement in the high line, I subject the opponent to their outside| | Opponent disengages to thrust in //brocade// (2nd)| I thrust on the //pied ferme// at the same time | HT-14 | Cf. HT-15 |
 +|At engagement in the high line, I subject the opponent to their inside| | Opponent disengages to thrust | I thrust on the //pied ferme// at the same time | HT-15 | Cf. HT-14 |
 +|At engagement in the high line, I subject the opponent's blade| | Opponent disengages to withdraw| I thrust  at the same time | HT-16 | |
 +| At engagement in the high line, I subject the opponent's blade to my outside | | Opponent disengages to thrust in //estocade//| I thrust in counter-time | HT-21 | |
 +| At engagement in the high line, the opponent subjects my blade | | Opponent abandons my blade to thrust in //estocade// | I thrust in counter-time | HT-22 | Cf. Ht-31|
 +| Opponent in high //tierce//. I am in low //tierce//, my point under the middle of the opponent's strong. | | Opponent thrusts in //estocade// | I thrust in counter-time | HT-23 | Cf. HT-24|
 +| Opponent in high //tierce//. I am in low //tierce//, my point under the middle of the opponent's strong. | | Opponent thrusts in //brocade// | I thrust in counter-time | HT-24 | Cf. HT-23|
 +| Opponent subjects my blade | | Opponent abandons my blade to thrust in //estocade// | I thrust in counter-time to the head| HT-31 | Cf. HT-22 |
 +| Opponent in high //tierce//. I am in low //tierce//, my point under the middle of the opponent's strong. | | Opponent thrusts in //estocade// | I thrust in counter-time | HT-32 | Cf. HT-23|
 +
 +
 +**Notes**:
 +
 +  * In all these actions, the target is called out as the opponent's leading shoulder (ie: the right shoulder for the right-handed opponent). Except where noted, all strikes are //estocade// which could simply mean a thrust or could mean specifically a thrust in //quarte//.
 +  * Unsure whether HT-03 is a different action to HT-02 or merely a specification of it.
 +  * HT-04 is pure Agrippa who states that a widely spaced stance is defensive but narrowing this stance (gathering the rear foot forward) indicates the opponent is preparing to attack.
 +
 +==== Sword and Dagger ====
 +
 +FIXME
 +
 +
 +
 +===== Simple Lessons of the Single Sword =====
 +
 +FIXME
 +===== Plays of the Single Sword in Mathematical Form =====
 +
 +This section covers pages 46-51 in the Fallen Rock Press hardcover edition of the translation. It is followed by two pages of more general tactical advice then plays for specific circumstances (eg: versus sword and cape, long play versus short play, etc). I'm uncertain whether these should be included in this section or form a separate section of their own.
 +
 +De Heredia lists four basic parries as the first item under this section. These cover a parry again a thrust coming in above your sword hand, to the inside and to the outside of your sword, and similarly a thrust coming in below you sword hand, to your inside or to your outside line.
 +
 +The hints he gives on the stance (Item 5) to adopt against the "mathematical form" is very similar to the standard stance of [[cavalcabo_start|Cavalcabo]] and [[paternoster_start|Paternoster]]. De Heredia specifies that the sword hand should be approximately a palm and a half about the belt/waist.
 +
 +An integral component in these parries is stepping into the line being attacked. For example, when parrying a thrust to your outside line, you parry and step toward your outside line. This increases the angle you gain on your opponent's blade with the parry to set up the riposte or counter-attack.
 +
 +  * **High Outside Parry**: Hand is in //quarte// and withdrawn close to the body, hand low and point high. Step to the outside.
 +  * **High Inside Parry**: Hand is in //quarte// and withdrawn close to the body, hand low and point high. Step to the inside.
 +  * **Low Outside Parry**: Hand is high and point is low. Step to the outside.
 +  * **Low Inside Parry**: Hand is high and point is low. Step to the inside.
 +
 +There are three pieces of which De Heredia gives at the end of the plays below.
 +
 +  * Never to "turn" in the presence of the opponent. I'm curious about the original word translated as "turn" and wonder whether "circle" might not be a better choice.
 +  * Always move the hand (and body) before the feet -- unsurprisingly matching the advice hammering on in the texts by [[cavalcabo_start|Cavalcabo]] and [[paternoster_start|Paternoster]].
 +  * If the opponent "turns" [circles?], always "turn" [circle] in the same direction.
 +
 +A quick note on the De Heredia's terms used below.
 +
 +  * //Estocade//: a thrust in //quarte//, fingernails up
 +  * //Brocade//: a thrust in //seconde// or //tierce//, fingernails down
 +  * //Cortelade//: a forehand cut from the right for a right-handed fencer, elsewhere called a //main droit//. This term is interesting because it appears to be a direct french-ification of the Italian //cortellata// rather than the Spanish equivalent (//tajo//) or well-known French //main droit//.
 +  * //Revers//: a backhand cut from the left for a right-handed fencer.
 +  * High Guard: Unsure. Undefined. I suspect this a stance in //second// or a //tierce// guard held at shoulder level. High guard appears to suggest that while the sword hand is held "high" the point is held low, usually under the opponent's guard/blade position. This seems decidedly odd.
 +
 +
 +^Invitation or Engagement ^No. of Actions ^Opponent's Action or Parry ^Counter Action ^Source(s) ^Concordance |
 +| Both engaged in "high guard"| FIXME | Opponent thrusts under my guard //estocade//| Low parry to inside or outside as required and a low thrust| HM-1 | Cf. HM-4|
 +| I subject opponent's sword to my outside| | Opponent disengages to thrust to my inside| Low inside parry; thrust to opponent's inside| HM-2 | |
 +| Opponent subjects me to my inside| | Advance my sword then strike in //brocade//| ---| HM-3 | |
 +| I subject the opponent to my inside | | Opponent disengages to thrust to my outside | I thrust to opponent's right shoulder (in //estocade//?)| HM-4 | Cf. HM-2 |
 +| I position my blade under the opponent's. No blade contact?| | Opponent strikes to my outside | I thrust to opponent's right shoulder "along the blade" on my inside| HM-5 | Cf. HM-4|
 +| I subject opponent (to my outside) | | Opponent disengages to thrust low to my inside | Low outside parry (envelopment?) and low thrust | HM-6 | |
 +| I stand in high //tierce//. Opponent is in low //tierce//.| | Opponent subjects from below moving my sword up and to my outside| Envelope into a low outside parry and thrust in //brocade//| HM-7 | Cf. HM-8, HM-9 |
 +| I stand in high //tierce//. Opponent is in low //tierce//.| | Opponent subjects from below moving my sword up and to my inside| Envelope into a low inside parry and thrust in //brocade//| HM-8 | Cf. HM-7, HM-9 |
 +| I stand in high //tierce//. Opponent is in low //tierce//.| | Opponent subjects from below moving my sword up and to my inside| Envelope into a low inside parry and thrust in //estocade//| HM-9 | Cf. HM-7, HM-8 |
 +| I subject opponent to my outside | | I envelop opponent's blade into a low inside parry and thrust low| --- | HM-10 | Cf. HM-11|
 +| I subject opponent to my inside| | I envelop opponent's blade into a low outside parry and thrust low| --- | HM-11 | Cf. HM-10|
 +| I provoke with a thrust in //quarte// to opponent's inside | | Opponent parries to the inside | I "turn [my] hand" (disengage?) into //seconde// to thrust to the right shoulder, stepping left with the left foot| HM-12 | |
 +| At engagement on the inside | | Opponent makes to subject my sword (to my outside?) | "Gather [my] point towards [me]" and cut into a thrust to the opponent's right shoulder on the outside| HM-13 | |
 +| Invitation in "high guard" | | Opponent advances the arm to subject my blade on the inside | //Caver// under the guard and thrust to the right shoulder on the outside| HM-14 | Cf. HM-15 |
 +| Invitation in "high guard" | | Opponent advances the arm to subject my blade on the outside | //Caver// under the guard and thrust to the right shoulder on the inside in //quarte//| HM-15 | Cf. HM-14 |
 +| At engagement in "high guard"| | Opponent lifts my point in order to thrust under my guard in //brocade//| //Caver// (collapse) into a low outside parry and thrust in //brocade//, "lifting the hand to protect the head"| HM-16 | |
 +| My point is "under the enemy's sword on the [my?] inside". Provoke with a thrust.| | Opponent parries [inside or outside?] | Disengage and thrust in //estocade// to the right shoulder | HM-17 | |
 +| My point is "under the enemy's sword on the [my?] outside". Provoke with a thrust.| | Opponent parries to my inside | Disengage and thrust in //estocade// to the right shoulder | HM-18 | |
 +| At engagement in the "straight line" | | Opponent subjects me on the outside | Disengage and thrust low in //estocade// to the right side, keeping the hand high| HM-19 | Cf. HM-21 |
 +| Opponent subjects my sword on the inside | | Opponent circles ("turns") to my inside or outside | Low thrust under the opponent's guard to the leading flank | HM-20 | |
 +| Opponent subjects my sword on the inside | | Opponent steps into the subjection (ie: to my right)| Disengage and strike to the right shoulder | HM-21| |
 +| I //fleureter// in order to make the opponent attack| |Opponent //fourcourir//s and creates an opening | I thrust in //estocade//| HM-22 | Note: Section called "To make the enemy //fourcourir//"|
 +| Engagement in high guard| | Opponent //fleureter//s| I drop my point on the inside to bar out the opponent's action stepping to the inside to void the engagement| HM-23 | Note: Section called "The remedy against movements or //fleuretages//" |
 +| Engagement in high guard| | Opponent //fleureter//s| I drop my point on the outside to bar out the opponent's action stepping to the outside to void the engagement| HM-24 | Note: Section called "The remedy against movements or //fleuretages//" |
 +| Engagement in high guard | | Opponent moves feet or body while "in presence"| I step in "burdening the opponent's blade with the flat of mine on the inside, keeping my had close to my waist to prevent a thrust. When the opponent disengages (over my blade?) I turn mine my to thrust in //estocade// to the right shoulder on the inside | HM-26 | |
 +| Engagement in high guard | | Opponent moves feet or body while "in presence"| I step in "burdening the opponent's blade with the flat of mine on the outside, keeping my had close to my waist to prevent a thrust. When the opponent disengages (over my blade?) I turn mine my to thrust in //estocade// to the right shoulder on the inside | HM-27a | |
 +| Engagement in high guard | | Opponent moves feet or body while "in presence"| I step in "burdening the opponent's blade with the flat of mine on the outside, keeping my had close to my waist to prevent a thrust. When the opponent does nothing I turn mine my to thrust in //brocade// to the right shoulder on the inside | HM-27b | |
 +| At engagement | | Opponent subjects my blade to the inside | Cut a //cortelade// while withdrawing | HM-28 | |
 +| At engagement | | Opponent subjects my blade to the inside | Cut a //revers// while withdrawing | HM-29 | |
 +| At engagement | | Opponent subjects my blade to the outside| Cut a //cortelade// while withdrawing | HM-30 | |
 +| At engagement | | Opponent subjects my blade to the inside | Feint to cut a //revers// then cut a //cortelade// while withdrawing | HM-31 | A //rond// or //stramazzone//?|
 +| At engagement | | Opponent subjects my blade to the outside| Feint to cut a //cortelade// then cut a //revers// while withdrawing | HM-32 | A //rond// or //stramazzone//?|
 +
 +Note: There is no HM-25. It turns out not to be a play but advice.
 +
 +HM-22, HM-23 and HM-24 are crazy and make little sense. The whole action is very silly but this is completely out of character for the rest of the book. I don't understand what is happening here. HM-22 is a play where I perform the //fleuretage// in order to provoke a reaction from the opponent. In HM-23 and HM-24, I avoid the opponent's //fleuretage// provocation.
 +
 +//Fleuretage// is defined in HM-22 although it is not named until HM-23. The description runs, "You keep your guard high, with the wrist of the hand raised and the point of your sword low, under the middle of the strong of the enemy's sword, and from there makle movements with the point on the inside and outside, moving only the wrist."
 +===== Plays of the Sword and Dagger =====
 +
 +FIXME
 +
 +==== Sword and Cape ====
 +
 +Once again, de Heredia lifts the text pretty much directly from Cavalcabo. Best go check out the page on [[cavalcabo_start#cape_et_epee_-_sword_and_cape|Cavalcabo's Cape et Épée]]. The cape is wrapped around the off-hand and used in the same way as the dagger.
 +
 +In addition, de Heredia used the cape-wrapped hand to parry thrusts (but not cuts) directly with the cape. These actions do not appear in Cavalcabo and there are hints that he frowned upon this practice.
 +
 +
 +
  

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